Mr. Cruel Triangle
Alf Gay declared he was dying of cancer and that he held a long-kept dark secret that he would finally reveal. He tells Detective Ron Iddles that his good friend Norman Lee had confessed his sins prior to his death in 1992. According to Alf, Norman Lee confided in him that he had a schoolgirl fetish, that he liked to cross-dress occasionally, and that he had murdered schoolgirl, Karmein Chan in 1991. Gay tells Ron Iddles that Lee’s house also contained a granny-style flat underneath and that it was just as described by the victims.
Ron Iddles in an interview with Matt Dunlop in 2021 (Melbourne Marvels) confirms that he relayed this information to the Spectrum Task Force at the time, and indeed he did, but two decades on, he does not know what resulted. This bombshell information from Australia’s most decorated detective certainly warrants further investigation. Former Homicide Detective Ron Iddles publicly announced the accused's name 20 years after he received this information from Alf , but there has been no further comment on this matter. In fact, no other media outlets have picked up this story other than Rule and some other amateur online blogs, which seems quite strange considering the high profile of this case. The fact is there is no truth to Gay’s deathbed declaration and Alf Gay’s long-held secret is very easily debunked. Active serving member of Victorian Police, Detective Stephen Kelly recently contacted Lee’s family and confirmed that the police investigated Lee at the time Ron Iddles relayed the information and that police dismissed the allegation against Norman Lee two decades ago - Lee is not a suspect. Australia’s number one detective, Ron Iddles was an active Senior Homicide Detective of the Victorian Police for more than a decade after he received this information from Alf. It seems quite unreal that he would not have followed up with Victoria Police before making a public comment- Naming an innocent dead man.
Alf Gay is the only person to link himself to the Mr. Cruel case by intent to frame a dead man by false implication, so the question must be asked as to what motivated Alf Gay to lie. Most crooks will pass over information for something in return - a reduced charge, sentence, or immunity from prosecution or money . Sometimes they are given the freedom to continue criminal activity- usually drug dealing. Was it an offer for personal benefit or something more sinister? Ron Iddles was a Senior Drug Squad Detective and the arresting officer of Alf Gay in 1989 on charges of drug trafficking. This serious charge can result in lengthy terms of imprisonment. Alf Gay was granted bail and no public record can be found to indicate that he received a prison sentence for the trafficking of methamphetamines. Did Alf do prison time and if he did, was it after 1991? Ron Iddles never specified the details of his meeting with Gay all those years ago, other than meeting Gay and chatting about safe cracking and other things. Ron Iddles claims he can’t recall the date or the exact year of his meeting with Alf, he says early 2000’s - certainly, these details would be held by Victoria Police in field notes or other systems of record . It’s also highly unusual for a criminal of Gay’s calibre to be having a friendly catch-up with a Detective which makes it difficult not to conclude that there was an exchange of information for some benefits that day and that Alf Gay may have committed the cardinal sin of all good crooks. Rule goes on to say more about the conversation between Alf gay and Ron Iddles during their meeting back in the early 2000’s:
“In 1989, Alf Gay still runs with a heavy crew. But he’s grateful that the detective running his case, a well-known former homicide investigator, doesn’t oppose bail for him and his co-offenders. The detective treats them fairly”
“Gay says he once visited the house where Lee held at least one of the abducted girls. Days later, the detective drives him to Eltham, past where Karmein’s parents had their restaurant when she was abducted in April 1991.
They turn down a street near the Eltham Hotel where Gay used to meet Lee to discuss “business” nearly 20 years earlier. Gay looks for a house on the south side of the street.”
But things have changed since the 1980s. The house he’s looking for seems to have been demolished along with others. New buildings cover the most likely locations.
He tells the detective the house had a garage converted into a secure “granny flat” with a bed and adjacent toilet, basin and shower.
He says it had a chunky pine couch and other details matching sketchy information police got from the two girls who were released after being blindfolded during their ordeals. (Rule, 2022).
It is clear from the conversation that there is a mutual respect between Gay and Iddles and certainly a relationship that went beyond this meeting. It is a fact, that Lee and his family did live in Eltham for a short period of time, but they had sold the property and left the area in 1987, which was prior to the abductions. Alf was close when he took Iddles for a drive that day but he was off by a couple of streets. According to Iddles, Alf directed him to Pitt St, Eltham, they drive up and down the street but Alf could not locate his “good friends” house so declared that the house had since been demolished. This is in fact incorrect, the house stands the same today and Pitt St is a point of interest when studying the geographical locations of Mr. cruel crime sites. Read more:
https://www.mrcruel.blog/mr-cruel/eastern-metropolitan-220kv-circuit )
The actual house that Lee owned displays no similar features to that of Mr. Cruel’s detention house as described by Sharon and Nicola. The property has a declined gravel driveway that must be traversed back up to a set of three stairs and along a wooden deck to another set of six stairs then further along the wooden deck to the front door. Walking through the front door takes you directly into the open lounge with large windows covering the front and neighbours property, and two smaller windows on the back wall looking out over the back yard. There’s a large open space that takes you through the lounge room and dining and kitchen area . To the left of the front door is a short hallway that passes a small bedroom on left and then onto the main bedroom at the end, the bedroom has a walk-in wardrobe and a small ensuite with shower and toilet. On the other side of the house is the lounge dining leading to another short hallway, passing a bathroom on the left, the laundry and separate toilet on the right and two bedrooms at the end. All through the interior of the house lay black slate floors that also cover the walls to ceiling in the main bathroom standard white walls and off white vertical drapes cover every window throughout. There is a double roller garage underneath the house but no access from inside, to get there you must go back out the front door, walk along the deck and down the stairs to the bottom of the gravel driveway. down the The garage underneath, just a garage and never a granny style flat ever existed. Alf also claims the house had been demolished but the fact is the house stands today, as it did all those years ago - unchanged. Andrew Rule knew these details because he had investigated the property himself and confirmed there was never a “granny flat” in the garage or was there any physical evidence to suggest that there could have been at any stage. The current owners of the property also confirmed to Rule that there was not a granny style flat under in the garage under the house or anywhere else on the property.
Lee’s wife and his children confirm that they do not know Alf Gay and never met him or heard his name prior to Andrew Rule’s Herald Sun article and that Alf was not a good friend of Norman Lee. It is also highly unlikely that Lee had confessed to Gay that he was Mr. Cruel, a child rapist and murder and that he liked to cross dress as it is common knowledge this type of criminal offence is not tolerated in the criminal underworld. This is the very reason child paedophiles were separated from mainstream prison areas and probably still are to this day. A man confessing such crimes to a respected old school crook would risk disappearing into the abyss. Ron Iddles states in interviews that he believes this to be true because Alf, a trusted criminal, had no reason to make it up . Every police officer knows that this is far from the truth, this is an issue that is well researched and documented findings that criminal informants lie all the time. To just believe the word of criminal informants without seeking evidence is a very dangerous mindset as well documented in police literature. Australia’s Number one detective with decades of experience surely knows that criminal informants lie more than they tell the truth .
“There is a veil of secrecy that covers this information. The details surrounding who the informant is, the circumstances in which they provided information to police, what they stood to lose or gain, and therefore what motivation there is for them to lie are often left only in the police’s hands” (Hanson, 2019).
“Making matters worse, informants are often afforded leniency in their own cases in exchange for the information they provide police (particularly if it assists in the securing of convictions). The reality is, the promise or expectation of possible benefits from the police creates a strong incentive for an informant to lie or provide misleading information” (Hanson, 2019).
“ARC Centre for Excellence in Policing and Security director Simon Bronitt said courts look suspiciously on the testimony of informers, who may just be trying to earn a quick buck or who downplay their own role in criminal activity by exaggerating or lying about the role of others”(Bronitt, 2012).
There are also many incorrect statements published in Rules, Herald Sun article. Rule makes the following false claims in his podcast - Mr. Cruel Triangle
“Alfie Gay a major respected , armed robber, safe cracker and all round sophisticated crook. It is a Widely held that he was involved in the MSS Robbery. One man charged but beat it . No one was caught”
“After Iddles locked up Alfie Gay and his 2 co-accused ( one the younger brother of a barrister). Alfie serves his time quietly, probably in pentridge or a country prison”
“Norman Lee had a little factory somewhere around Essendon”
“Alf claims Norman Lee had a granny flat under the house in Eltham . The same description that was provided to police by the victims.”
“Norman would most likely travel from Eltham to Essendon . No doubt he would travel through Thomastown”
Alg Gay was charged and convicted of the M.S.S Robbery. In 1974 he was sentenced to twelve years imprisonment but on later appealed that sentence as reduced. In 1985 Alf was charged and arrested, along with two other men, on methamphetamine trafficking. He was granted bail with no opposition from the police, Ron Iddles. Thre is no source of information that verifies that he received a custodial sentence on those charges. Andrew Rule alleges that Lee owned a factory in Essendon at the time and travelled from Eltham to Essendon via Thomastown. Lee’s partner claims this allegation is false and that Lee never owned or operated a business in the Essondon area. The house that Lee lived and owned in Eltham does not fit the description provided by the victims to police.
The public have become accustomed to this type of lazy storytelling from journalists, after all the media and information industries have lost some 60,000 jobs in the past 15 years. Can we excuse journalists deliberately publishing blatant lies to make a buck ? In Australia, the courts state that an action for defamation should protect the living only, the deceased person has no right and can not be violated any longer . The dead man accused can not defend himself which certainly allows for journalists such as Rule to just make it up to sell a story without fear of recourse. Most crime writers do the same but in this case there is much more to consider, the fact that the victims and their families are still alive and the masked man that committed the most heinous of crimes against them was never captured and there is an ongoing open investigation.
“Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself [sic] to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible. He is a kind of confident man, preying on people’s vanity, ignorance, or loneliness, gaining their trust, and betraying them without remorse.” ( Malcome).
No such excuses could be made for a retired detective. Ron Iddles is the source of Rule’s Herald Sun article (Rule, 2022) and Mr. Cruel Triangle podcast (Rule, 2022). Iddles was a Detective Sergeant of the Drug Squad between the years of 1987-1989. In the same year that Iddles arrested Alf for trafficking methamphetamines, 1989, he retired from the Victorian Police Force and it wasn't until 1994 that he rejoined the force as Detective Senior Sergeant of Homicide. Iddles remained in the same position up until 2014 before taking a position as Secretary of the Police Union. In an interview he tells Matt Dunlop that in the early 2000 he was tasked to review this case . Iddles states :
“My role was not to reinvestigate but to continue on and look at any new information that came in.”
Although Iddles can’t recall exactly what year the conversation took place but it seems a remarkable concurrence that he was tasked to review this case around the same time as his friendly catch -up meeting with Alf Gay. Both Ron Iddles and Andrew Rule would certainly have known Lee was not a suspect . Keith Moor for the Herald Sun (2016) reveals details of the seven suspects held in the Sierra Files - None of which are Norman Lee , confirmed by Detective Stephen Kelly, Victoria Police.